Florida State University Top Questions

What are the academics like at your school?

Sandra

Many of the programs here at FSU are nationally and regionally ranked, and while many people see FSU as the least academically mature between the "big 3" Florida schools (UF and UM) we are more than capable of holding our own against them. I am a sophomore Creative Writing major (one of the highest ranked departments in the school) and over the past four semesters that I have been here, I have rarely dealt with teachers who did not make some kind of an impact on me. In my major classes, the teachers have always gone above and beyond the call of duty to help me and my fellow classmates. Whether it is extra study sessions or prolonged office hours, I have always felt welcome and prepared for whatever my professors ask of me.

Sarah

I began FSU as a Business major and switched to an English major my sophomore year. In the large lecture classes, Professor's won't know your name unless you reach out to them and come to their office hours or create a relationship with your professor. In many of my major classes, the class size is much smaller so all of the teachers know students by name. My favorite classes have been my English major classes, the classes have been interesting and the teachers have created a fun learning atmosphere. My least favorite class was Geology, it's harder than the stereotypical "rocks for jocks" saying. The English department has different major subdivisions, such as Creative Writing, Editing, Writing and Media, and Literature. The advisors help you pick classes and different websites can give you tips on the teachers. Many students form study groups within their classes to study, and Strozier Library has group study rooms to make studying easier. There are students that study tons, students that budget their time daily with studying, and students that blow it off. The grades usually reflect study time accurately. A student must have 120 credit hours to graduate, and the FSU Career Center provides a plethora of help for students reaching that graduation point. I went to the Career Center last week to work on my resume and get pamphlets on jobs for my major. FSU has so many helpful options for first year students to begin their college career the right way and help for graduating seniors who are looking to start the real world with that perfect job.

Brittany

Classes here at Florida State are great. My advisor has sat with me for hours trying to chose a major, talking about everything that I like and could see myself doing. Both of my advisors know my name and always seem excited to see me. When you are in a bigger lecture class, it is up to you to get to know your teacher. They love it when you come to their office hours and talk to them. They live for teaching a subject they are so passionate about. However, in smaller classes, like English, your teacher will know your name after the first day. They make it their personal effort to get to know you and make you feel comfortable in the class. Every teacher here at FSU wants to see you do good in their class and will do anything to help you. I am an Environmental Studies and Editing, Writing, and Media double major. I absolutely love it. I want to write for National Geographic and my advisors have been more than helpful to help me reach that goal.

Chelsea

Being an English and Women's Study major at FSU meant that I didn't have many huge, lecture-style classes to attend, but this isn't true for all majors. It isn't uncommon that your Intro to Bio, and other lower-level lecture classes can consist of up to 300 people, where you're just a number with a clicker. My favorite classes were always my English Lit classes that had some of the most driven students, and most passionate professors I have ever met. Not only do these professors want you to succeed, but they want you to enjoy your time doing it as well. These English professors care about your education. Some of my favorite classes included Philosophy of Feminism, History of Race and Ethnicity, Human Rights film, Intro to Short Story, Global Women's Issues, and many more

Ashley

Florida State has a mix of large and small classes, so it can cater to any student's preference. Individual attention is given easily if a student wants it, especially if they go to office hours. I have personally found office hours very helpful and teachers always seem to want to help their students. If you like to study, you can find yourself a nice spot in one of the campus libraries, where you will always find plenty of studying taking place.

Anya

My majors are Actuarial Science and Finance. Classes I've taken are definitely geared toward getting a job. One call, Business Communication, teaches communication skills anyone in the business world will use on a daily basis.

Casey

Starting I am a sophomore at FSU currently double majoring in English: Editing, Writing, and Media and Sports Management with a minor in Recreation and Leisure Management. It is an interesting course of study, but I absolutely love it and could not be happier! I did change my major a few times until I settled with something that fit me right. I was accepted into FSU as a pre-med student, but after the first semester I realized it was not for me. With the help of excellent student advisors, the transition was easy and actually fun to be honest. Classes are as hard as you make them to be and have a lot to do with your major choice. When I was pre-med I was definitely a lot more stressed, but now that I have found something that suits me better, classes are fun and interesting for me. I feel like upon graduation I will be ready for the real world. Both of my majors require some sort of internship before graduating, which really helps get that job field experience. I am happy with the academic opportunities and help offered at Florida State University.

Megan

With the exception of some of the Freshman classes like Composition, College Algebra, Bio I, Chemistry I, the classes at FSU are relatively small and actively encourage class participation. Even the smaller auditorium classes like History of Text Technology encourage participation - involvement in your education is important at FSU. The bigger Freshman classes aren't the best for one-on-one time with teachers because they're massive, however the higher the level of the class, the smaller they get. Many classes are taught by TA's, which may seem like a downside, however the TA's are just as good as the professors, and are often more likely to cultivate a relationship with their students. Education at FSU is both geared towards getting a job and towards learning for the sake of gaining knowledge. Even for those courses that don't have valuable job knowledge included, there's the Career Center that's very useful. Most students study pretty hard, especially for higher level classes. There are several libraries on campus, as well as outside tutoring options from ACE.

Joshua

I'll begin with what I know: the English department. I'm an English Literature Major here at FSU, and yes, I know all my professors names! At FSU, once you get a lot of your required and very basic courses out of the way, the classes get a lot smaller. In one of my required courses called "Computer Fluency," there were around 400 kids in the lecture hall. The professor, named Dr. Gaitros, would stay after class every morning so that any student that had a question could walk up to him and ask. Obviously not all 400 students would approach him, but the option to was there to take advantage of, and that's what really matters. Every teacher I've had thus far as made it extremely easy to approach after class whether in a lecture hall with 200-400 students, or in a classroom with 20. At that, most professors open up for office hours for an hour or two every other day for some extra help outside of class. As far as the air of intellect among students is concerned, that depends strictly on what students you wish to identify with and meet. I've personally had some very interesting conversations with other students about different ways to approach literature interpretation, others about theoretical physics in my astronomy course, and some others with a student I met that had studied abroad in India to learn about Hinduism. The school is filled with students, it's just all about opening yourself up to meet them and discuss!

Ezekeil

I can only really speak for my own department as an English major. My experience with this part of the university's academia is pretty good. my degree concentration (Editing, Writing and Media) is a very new and unique program offered nowhere else. A large portion of the classes are taught by T,A,'s instead of Professors which is strange and I've sometimes felt as if I were being cheated by not having actual professor in certain classes. The Creative Writing program in the English department is very competitive and hard to get into as well as stay in if you can't keep up. My experience with teachers here is that most of the curriculum is taught through discussion, So while the overall goal is to get a degree to get a job, I think the teachers mainly want to here original ideas and interpretations and get the students thinking like writers or filmmakers, doctors, researchers, ect...

Andrew

It's clear in all classes that FSU is constantly trying to push its curricula through the 21st century and not be a passive recipient of change. At this moment, the newest buildings on campus are science buildings for Psychology and Chemistry, each with modern affordances and a potential to aid students with the rapidly changing means of communication. Class sizes are generally small, allowing professors to get to know their students and be possible contacts into a student's budding career. And often classes are offered to pique students' interests and get them excited about school. A very popular class at FSU is a religion studies class that focuses on "The Lord of the Rings," "Harry Potter," "The Chronicles of Narnia" and "His Dark Materials." This fostering of conversations and debates on modern topics really rallies students to compete with one another and get involved with the world around them. Along with the new buildings on campus, the Strozier Library has just been remodeled with new computer labs, smart rooms and technology hubs. Also, more and more rooms in the English department and other departments are getting Smart Boards and other modern technology to aid in the spread of mulitmodal material and increase interactivity. Finally, with great career centers and a weekly job fair, FSU's academic programs are most definitely geared toward preparing students to be part of the job market and giving them the tools they need to be competitive and effective in today's professional society.

Andrew

It's clear in all classes that FSU is constantly trying to push its curricula through the 21st century and not be a passive recipient of change. At this moment, the newest buildings on campus are science buildings for Psychology and Chemistry, each with modern affordances and a potential to aid students with the rapidly changing means of communication. Class sizes are general small, allowing professors to get to know their students and be possible contacts into a student's budding career. And often classes are offered to pique students' interests and get them excited about school. A very popular class at FSU is a religion studies class that focuses on "The Lord of the Rings," "Harry Potter," "The Chronicles of Narnia" and "His Dark Materials." This fostering of conversations and debates on modern topics really rallies students to compete with one another and get involved with the world around them. Along with the new buildings on campus, the Strozier Library has just been remodeled with new computer labs, smart rooms and technology hubs. Also, more and more rooms in the English department and other departments are getting Smart Board and other modern technology to aid in the spread of mulitmodal material. Finally, with great career centers and a weekly job fair, FSU's academic programs are most definitely geared toward preparing a students to be part of the job market and giving him or her the tools needed to be competitive and effective in today's professional society.

Ryan

The academic side of Florida State varies from teacher to teacher. Overall, I feel that I am getting a good education. With that said, there are your rotten apples. In one or two of my classes, I felt that the professor was not helpful to the students’ needs. The lectures for those classes did not go anywhere and ended with the teacher ranting about nothing. However, in those instances, I was able to find help from tutors at the library on campus. I have been able to take some unique classes here on campus. Never in my life would I imagine that I could get college credit for working at a radio station and playing music or going to sporting events as a member of the press. Other classes I’ve taken include watching movies and talking about how they relate to social problems in the United States. Other classes which I have enjoyed were talking about the history of music and how it has changed throughout the years. On a more serious note, if you can even call it that, there have been classes where we read graphic novels and talk about how the connection between text and image has changed since manuscripts back in the 1800s. FSU offers a wide variety of classes that can cater to individual interests (there are writing classes on Harry Potter and the Beatles). Still, there is one class which I look forward to taking. Florida State offers an infield study class which lets the student make a connection between Disney music and how advertising manipulates people.

Catherine

The academics at FSU are excellent. Our university strives to aid students in all areas and also help them excel to reach their career goals. I love being able to be on a first name basis with professors and be able to have them as a teacher for multiple semesters. I am an English: Editing, Writing, and Media major, which is the newest degree in the English Department. My major covers a variety of subjects including print media, publishing, web based design, electronic media, and editing.The Editing, Writing, and Media track re-conceives the English major for the 21st century. My favorite class that I've taken has been Writing, Editing, and Print Online. In this class, we created print publications and a website. Our entire class broke into teams to create an informational website for college students in the area of Tallahassee. I got to write articles and reviews, but what was really exciting was getting to work on the PR side of it all. I created flyers and chalked around campus about our website and I also created a twitter, facebook, and tumblr for it. The English department is so helpful to students. The department has just recently opened a digital studio that allows students to use software like InDesign and Dreamweaver. Students can receive help while using the software from graduate students that specialize in different programs.

Ramona

When I was first applying for college my parents kept telling me I should stay close and go to community college because, "Big universities aren't as personal. Your classes will be too big and you won't learn anything." This is not the truth. Yes, some of your classes are bigger than others, but most of your big classes take place in your first couple semesters. Once you get into your major courses the classes are smaller and you really do get to know your professor. Even the bigger courses though, you have plenty of opportunities to see your professor, to gain a connection with them. All the professors I have had have been awesome and really open with their office hours and helping me whenever I needed it. I've never had a problem getting face time with my professors.

Alexandra

Depending on the size of the class and how often you speak to the professor, they will try to learn everyone's names. Most of the professors give pretty interesting lectures that make you want to go to class. As far as help finding a job after graduation, the career center is extremely helpful with that. They send out newsletters through email about job fairs and on campus recruiting, they will help you put your resume together, and even help you decide if graduate school or some other program would be a good fit for you.

Dara

I am constantly amazed at the variety of classes FSU has to offer. There is a class for every interest. We have diverse majors as well, from Golf Course Management to Environmental Science to Theatre. FSU prides itself on our majors for being some of the top in the nation. I am a Family and Child Sciences major which doesn't even exist in most colleges. We are pioneers in almost every field. You notice this when you realize how accomplished your professors are in their respective fields.

Marcia

The academics are good in certain areas and not as good in others. A lot of students that I have classes with don't really show up and seem not to care too much about their future. The professors that I have had really love to teach and enjoy what they do but I have also had the majority of my classes taught by grad students. The school does however have a lot of their programs ranked in the top 5 {4a082faed443b016e84c6ea63012b481c58f64867aa2dc62fff66e22ad7dff6c} and I have never taken a class that I thought was a complete waste of time.

Jesse

Laughing out loud. What academic life?? FSU requires that all students attend the first class of every semester, something that will rarely happen for the rest of the semester. Professors teach large classes where student names are never thought of, and seem to evacuate the campus quickly after their teaching is done. Intellectual conversations, rarely present at this university at all, will never be found outside the classroom, for the typical student is far too drunk by 3 pm on the average weekday to remember what they learned the hour before. As if a lack of learning in the class were not enough, the FSU advising is a nightmare. Attending for more than a semester one will quickly come to learn that it is best to do the opposite of anything an adviser tells you. Another thing worth mentioning: if you are in the hard sciences or math and are beyond your freshman year, don't even think about study abroad. The office of international affairs gave a friend and me a weird look and sent us out the door.

Chris

FSU is a very challenging university, the academics are top notch and the faculty is home to many esteemed professors who have won awards in their field. I believe it says a lot about FSU's academic strength that they received contract for the Magnet Lab instead of M.I.T. Other than the basic freshman classes (when everybody is trying to fulfill their liberal arts requirements) all the courses in the business school were less than 40 students. The teachers asked engaging questions and were readily available for office hours. Students were also very involved in the classes.

Madison

Yes, professors do know my name. But I have made it a point to introduce myself and meet them. You NEVER know who you could be asking to write you a letter of recommendation for medical or graduate school. my favorite class is Brain and Behavior taught by Orenda Johnson. I love it because it is highly interesting and the teacher, Dr. Johnson is superb! I haen't had a least favorite yet. Some students study more than others. Most study at least a day or two before the test. Class participation in some courses is common. Yes, FSU students do have intellectual conversations outside of class. Students can be competitive, depending on career goals, such as medical, law, or graduate school. The most unique class I've taken has een Women Studies. I LOVE my major! But you do not get much sleep with that type of major and you do need high academic performance for acceptance into a graduate program. Yes, I go to office hours so I do spend time with professors outside of class. FSU's academic requirements are doable. I feel as if the education at FSU is geared toward learning for its own sake.

Michelle

Large class sizes in general classes like Freshman Biology.

Brogan

In terms of academics, FSU is just as good as any other university. There are good and bad professors, classes, and requirements. A lot of it is just a matter of opinion.

Stacy

While some classes at FSU are HUGE (baby bio aka basic biology has over 1000 students in that class), I've been here for both undergraduate and graduate school, and I've only ever had 1 class over 50 kids. So it's been great, almost all of my professors have known my name in the first month or so that haven't been in my degree program.

Becca

Every teacher has hours you can visit them. UTILISE THESE! Professors want to see you and talk to you.

Alicia

Large classes

Caroline

My teachers know my name, and i know they will be helpful when its time for me to start looking for a job.

Melanie

As a former student, now professor at FSU I can see a certain change that has taken place in the student body since the installation of Bright Futures Scholarship. Having so many students on a state-paid full ride is both a blessing and a curse. In some aspects it allows students to not work as much and focus more on school and extracurricular. In other aspects it allows them to slack off if they are not focused.

Jessica

The best class that I've taken was speech with Mark Zeigler and the worst class has been Organic Chemistry.

Harper

FSU is very competitive, and although other schools say things like "FSU is just a party school" it really is not. We take our schoolwork seriously here at Florida State. I guess most of us live by this motto though, "Work hard...but party harder". I've taken many great classes with great professors but the most influential class I have taken was definitely my Micro and Macro Economics classes with Calhoun. Although the class is in a lecture hall built to hold over 500 students, this class is one of the most hands on, participating class I have ever had. I love going to class and I can honestly say that I've learned A LOT already from Calhoun's two classes, more than in any other particular topic I've studied so far.

Emmerson

Most of my teachers know my name because they teach allmost all of my classes throughout the week. Outside of class, I def. talk about homework, or how to do things that pertain to my major. I spend alot of time outside of class with my t.a's

Robert

Studying happens alot. What's really nice is that they have a 24 hour library so at all hours of the day kids are studying. And right before tests, the library is swarmed with study groups.

Laura

The classes are too big. It's hard to mediate the talking that goes on and I think that hurts us academically.

Blake

professors known my name in my risk manageemnt classes, meaning classes that are 25 people or less. i think students study pretty often, but that also depends on their major and how difficult the class is that they are taking right now. .

Cameron

English is my favorite subject and so there was many classes that were beneficial. My editing and manuscript class with Brenda Mills has been a rewarding experience. She is amazing and she really knows what she is talking about. I also loved Cadence Kidwell's Latino Literature, a lot of participation and getting to know film and really explording latin culture. The students are always striving to be better than the next, so you have to have your A game on. Some of my professors have invited us to go grab a bite to each instead of class and that was a great treat and got us to really familiarze ourselves; very important your freshman year.

Lauren

i enjoy all my classes that are related to my major. i love the business school it is very competitive and is not as easy as one would think. i do feel that i will be very prepared when i graduate and get a job. professors are very qualified and some are well known who have received awards. they are also very helpful with offering time aside from class to help with anything in regards to class.

Nina

The classes are too big but this is not always a bad thing. It allows me to have a better chance to find people I know in the same classes as myself but can also be very distracting.

Jenna

Most professors do not know my name but some do take the time to learn it. My favorite classes have been my hospitality classes. They're always interesting and interactive; I can count on being entertained. My least favorite class is life insurance. It's very boring and and it's at 8AM. Most students study the day before a test. Class participation usually happens by the same students everyday. Everyone else just listens. FSU students do have intellectual conversations away from class but sometimes they like to talk about mindless topics to get away from the academics. Most students are competitive, especially with grades. The hospitality department is great and the professors are amazing. They teach to the industry and all have such diverse backgrounds. The classes are very easy yet they are relavent. The risk management major is tough but personal. The professors learn who the students are and encourage them to do well. I do not spend any time with professors outside of class besides in their office hours. FSU has very good academic requirements and the education is geared toward getting a job, at least it is in the business school.

Kelly

Some professors know my name. It depends on how much I enjoy his or her class

Alice

Ever since Strozier became open 24 hours a day and allowed you to bring your own food and beverage, the place has been hopping. I'm hoping that it is not only because it's now a place that people seem to want to hang out, but because perhaps our students are becoming more diligent in their studies. Some people are chatting, but a lot do have their heads buried in books. Strozier is SO much more packed than it was four years ago when I started. It was always like a ghost town unless it was midterms or finals week.

Mike

Professors do take the time to get to know students names for the most part. Class participation among the newer students is less common. Everywhere I go there are intellectual conversations going on. The college of social sciences helped me get through one major and on to my second of finance. I feel that FSU should set their requirements a little higher. It seems as if we let any old joe in.

Andy

We need to change our pay system for professors. They reach a peak after about 10 years and have no incentive to stay at FSU. That is why we lose our best professors and other schools don't have a big of a problem as us. Tuition needs to be increased Parking on campus needs to increase

Justin

Classes your freshman year can be quite large. After I got most of my liberal studies courses done, my classes are usually under 40 people. Students speak up all the time in class and ask really interesting questions. We have some interesting classes on campus. I've taken Multicultural Film. The most unique class I've heard of is a wine tasting class for Hospitality majors.

Evan

When it comes down to the professors, in most classes in comes down to the effort that you put into getting to know them. There are some classes that have relatively small class sizes, below 25 students, and the teachers are usually graduate students, but that doesn't mean they can teach any less effectively than professors. The professors always have office hours that you can go in and talk to them, so if you want a professor to get to know your name the best way would be to go and talk to them during their office hours. My favorite class so far has been PHM2300, Introduction to Political Philosophy with Chris Zarpentine. It may not sound that interesting from the name, but it really doesn't go that in-depth into political issues, but really the reasons that we have government, and why we have the setup that we do have. My least favorite class so far would have to be CGS2100, which is almost exactly the same as CGS2060, but it is relatively easy. Ken Baldauf does a good job in the videos, but it's just a class that involves no thought at all, and is mostly busy work. I would definitely reccomend taking it online rather than the in-class option because it saves a lot of headaches listening to the lectures and actually having to go to class. The course book is not worth reading at all, but you need to know most of the terms that he threw in the book. It is one of the most annoying books you will ever read, so I would reccomend just going through and studying the bolded words rather than trying to understand the whole book. Students really only study either the day before or two days before a test comes up, as well as the day of. I haven't had any tough courses yet so I can't say how much anybody studies for the 3000-5000 level courses. Depending on the class, participation is more common in some because the class size allows it. In most of the large classes that are required across many majors there is little participation, and even showing up is extremely optional. In the smaller classes attendance is usually taken, and they are more fun to attend because there is participation. In three out of the 11 courses that I have taken to date at FSU there has been in class participation. Often times the conversations out of class are not that intellectual in the terms of discussing intellectual material, but disproving each other and correcting each other for grammatical errors. It is usually limited to puns, yelling, and then more yelling. The students are not really that competitive openly, but there is competition between students that make it their goal to do better than the other. Most of the time it is limited to secret competition that is not really talked about or even noticed. There really isn't anything that anybody does directly to sabotage another student's chances at getting a good grade or assignment done. Most students are actually helpful and like to study together so that they will both do better. The most unique class I have taken is HUM2210, Humanities: Homer to Gothic, with Tammy Whitehead. The class was interesting, but some of the course material was very weird. The plays that were required reading were interesting, but not necesarilly because of their literary merit. There were just some very interesting stories and morals presented, and it was a good class overall and relatively easy, but very interesting. The College of Business is very helpful and has a great abundance of scholarships to offer to students that have already been admitted to the college. The hospitality program is one of the best in the country, and there is plenty more that the college has to offer. There is also a great Golf Course Management major for anybody interested in owning or running a golf course, and there are plenty of businesses that look to FSU for interns. There is the option to spend time with most of the professors outside of class and talk about the class material and your standing, and what you can do to improve. It may be harder to find time with the professor in the larger classes, but most of them take appointments at which time you can meet them. FSU's academic requirements are adequate and definitely are geared toward preparing you for the coursework you will experience in your major. There are plenty of academic advisors that are available to help you with choosing a courseload that will prepare you for future classes. The education in the lower level courses is geared towards general knowledge, but when you get into your major courses it gets less general and more into the application of concepts as they would be implemented when working. However, they are not overly specific since many students often take courses that do not relate directly to their major.

Ron

The best class I've ever taken here was Anthropology of Religion, taught by Dr. Bruce Grindal. There is great wisdom to be gleaned from it.

George

I do enjoy the philosophy department at FSU there are a variety of interesting courses to take. I especially enjoyed Ethical theory. The amount of time you study greatly varies from major to major. The philosophy TA's are very easy to find if you need help and will go over the material with you extensively.

Harper

I'm getting tired of rambling so, I've only had 2 professors know my name and that was in my two smallest classes. I love going to school and learning to begin with and FSU definitely fulfills that desire. None of my classes have been extremely difficult or easy, but I do put a good amount of effort into my schoolwork.

Mandy

Most of my professors know me, but that is not always the case. Many classes are too large to get individualized attention, but it is largely the students' responsiblilty to make that relationship occur. My favorite class was Family Social Problems and Social Change. My least favorite class was Biology. My most unique class was Death and the Dying Family. I find myself studying every night, maybe for 2-3 hours, depending on my course load. Students often participate, and I find class participation is larger in the smaller courses. Students are often very competitive but are often very willing to help others in need of guidance. While I do not spend much time with professors out of class time, I know they are avaliable for my assistance, when needed. I am dual majoring in psychology and family/child sciences with the intent to puruse a ph.D in mental health therapy. The academic requirements are generally very relevant to all majors and can be career specific.

Megan

Yes, I know all of my professors names. I think my favorite class would have to be Family relationships and development with Dr. Michelle Lee. She was a great professor and a really interesting person. I study a lot the week before a test but other than that I don't study much. You miss out on life if that is all you do! Of course FSU students have intellectual conversations outside of the classroom. Doesn't everyone? FSU is perfectly in the middle between being geared toward getting a job and learning for its own sake. I really enjoy going to school here. It is the perfect balance for me.

Parker

Most of my professors know my name, because theatre classes tend to be more personal, the average class consisting roughly of 27 people, whereas business classes and the like tend to have 100 or so people. My favorite class varies day to day. It depends on what I have due, and how well I perform that day. FSU students certainly have intellectual conversations outside of class. Sometimes I feel i'm not as much a part of it as I want to be, though. I feel like i'm immersed in this world of intellectuals and deep thinkers, and that most times i'm not up to par. The most unique class i've taken is a toss-up between a voice and movement workshop taught by some BFA Theatre students, and a Physics for Liberal Arts class, which sucked. I'll see professors outside of class quite often, just walking down the street or having rehearsals with them. I think FSU's academic requirements are fair. FSU education is geared towards both getting a job and learning for it's own sake. But the students tend to pick one path or the other. It's never a mix of the two.